Several things come to mind in listing quickly the stumbling blocks to effective optical design/total system interfacing. They are: the presence of about five definitions for most optical requirement parameters; lack of communication; horrendous delays in making critical decisions; realizable vs practical requirements; and the way optical designers are educated. The last is perhaps the most difficult and controversial problem. At the August 1974 ,SPIE meeting on "Effective Systems Integration and Optical Design," Robert E. Hopkins (Tropel, Inc.) and Leonard H. Wald (Lockheed Missiles and Space Corporation) had a long public discussion on this subject. Although on the surface it appeared that they had agreed on virtually nothing, I feel they were completely in agreement on the idea that optical designers should have included within their education an apprenticeship program. It may be that Wald also felt that such a program should be applied, also, to the egineering types who eventually might become project engineers. Hopkins seemed to feel that an apprenticeship program could never be achieved, while Wald did not seem convinced of the impossibility.